Archive
Subscribe
Events
Resources
Think Tank replays
Search
Login
Subscribe
Sep 17, 2026
Work in Progress - Erik Bates
Work in Progress - Erik Bates
00:00
24:54
Transcript
0:00
Hi everyone, and welcome to Work in Progress. This is a Humanir microcast. Um, there's no doubt that HR is dealing with a lot. Work is changing. Technology is changing faster.
0:12
Expectations of HR are growing exponentially every day. And there's a, or isn't always an obvious answer for us around what we can do next.
0:22
But we often know in our community there is someone who has dealt with the problem you're facing, someone has tried to do the thing you're considering, and someone has made that mistake you're worried about making.
0:36
So Work in Progress gives us a great place to share those stories and lessons. Today we're joined by Eric Banks all the way... Eric Bates, all the way from St.
0:47
Louis in America, and with an expertise in compensation and payroll. So Eric, hi. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Hi, uh, like I said, I'm Eric Bates. I... St.
1:01
Louis, Missouri, right in the middle of the United States. Uh, I've been working in compensation for about 10 years now, um, about 15 or so in HR in general. I actually started my career in talent acquisition,
1:15
um, and uh, got out of there quickly. I, I realized it was not for me. But, uh, the, the numbers and, uh, figures and spreadsheets that come with compensation really is what spoke to me.
1:27
Um, and I've been doing that for about 10 years now, and mostly in the nonprofit space, healthcare in particular. But I also- Yeah... have, uh, recently spun up my own little side hustle.
1:35
I am, uh, doing compensation consulting, um, as a, as a, uh, personal business on the side as well. Um, just dealing with, uh, small to medium sized businesses who don't have an in-house compensation function.
1:47
So you kind of fell into TA and then into compensation rather than choosing it as a career option? Yeah, it was a complete accident that I wound up in there. I thought I was gonna work in higher education.
2:00
I thought I was gonna be a college and university administrator. Um, and that didn't work out for me. It wasn't, uh, wasn't the, uh, glamorous life that I some, for some reason thought it was going to be.
2:13
Um, and just wound up, uh, working for the local, uh, municipal government here in St. Louis, just doing talent acquisition for them. Um- Yeah... and that's kinda how I wound up in, in HR in general.
2:25
So what's then, so 10 years later, what's kept you here? What's kept you doing it? It's the puzzles.
2:32
I mean, it really, when, when it comes to, especially when it comes to compensation, it is a new puzzle to figure out every single day.
2:39
Um, you know, there's the, uh, legislation and the, the regulations that go behind everything of course, but then there's also just trying to figure out,
2:50
day by day you get a, a random email from somebody saying that they think their pay is off, or a leader says, "Something's going on with this person's payroll." And so, you know, you're, you're just digging into it.
2:58
You're, you're just diving into it, and you're playing Sherlock Holmes on a regular basis. Uh, just trying to figure out the, the solution and, uh, you know, the, the whodunit of... [laughs] Yeah.
3:08
And usually, usually it is trying to figure out like who messed up. Somebody messed up somewhere on the way here. [laughs] Where was it and I hope it's not me.
3:15
That could almost be, uh, what HR is, who messed up sometimes, which, uh- Which is why I think...
3:22
Yeah, which is why I think that, you know, the compensation really fits with HR in a lot of ways, and I think sometimes people don't see comp and HR, uh, you know, in the, in the same, uh, umbrella. You know?
3:34
When people think HR, they think the business partners, and they're thinking, you know, that side of the house. And, um, I, I like to, uh, remind people that, that comp people are HR people too. Um, which
3:49
for better or worse, 'cause people... HR doesn't always have the best reputation I understand, but, uh, I try to give us a good reputation and remind people that comp people can be good too. Oh.
3:59
So was there a, a moment in your career that changed how you thought about the work you were doing? Yeah. I, I think it was
4:13
when I, when I got my first, uh, job out, when I left the city of St.
4:17
Louis and I started working for a, a local small hospital here in town, that I, I realized as I was working through a new pay structure for the nurses there, how much, how complex it can be. Yeah.
4:35
But then if done right, the amount of feedback you get from people saying, "You know, this is great. We love this." Like, the, you know, the s- the employees are happy with how things went.
4:46
Not all of them, 'cause you can't please everybody obviously, but you know, on the whole they were happy with, you know, the, the new, um, pay structures we had put into place.
4:55
And so I kind of gotten that feedback from the employees and leaders that it was, it was working.
4:59
So I think it, it really just changed my entire perspective on, on just m- my career path and really made me realize that this is what I want to do. Um, and it made me realize the, um, the benefit that,
5:13
no pun intended 'cause comp and bens kind of go together, but the benefit of, of the, the compensation function. And it's more than just looking at pay and just saying, "This is how much this person should be paid."
5:27
There is so much more behind it. Um, that, and it really was, uh, pretty exciting to, to finally piece all that together. I, I have to say in my HR career, comp and bens is the one area I've stayed out of.
5:40
But, uh, I, but I've always admired someone who can work with numbers and, uh, you know, for as long as they do in that job. [laughs] And the funny thing is, growing up hated math. Oh. Yeah. It was the, it was the worst.
5:58
I, I, I would come home crying after school because I could not grasp math. And now that's literally my job day by day is-...
6:10
and spreadsheets See, there's a place for all of us math haters in the world Turns out that there is a place So, so, so one of the things I, and this is the, the one I was really keen to ask you about, and it's the human side of your career.
6:25
So, um, was there a career moment that still makes you laugh, or even better yet, makes you cringe? Kind of a, a, it's kind of a twofer on that one.
6:38
Um, and I, and I need to say this in a way that hopefully I, I'm, I'm gonna try not to, um, blow anybody up with this.
6:47
There was a time in my career in which I had a, uh, disagreement with, uh, one of our senior leaders in a previous organization over a certain, um, law. And they were 100% convinced that they were right.
7:05
I was 100% convinced that I was right, and I went so far as to email the Department of Labor here in the States and asked and got back from them confirmation that yes, in fact, I was right. Um,
7:24
and it was kind of the running joke at that point that we needed to, like, make T-shirts and hats with the, uh, the regulation number on it and, and just, like, walk around and see if that leader would catch on to what we were doing.
7:39
Um- [laughs]... we decided not to, um, because I liked my job and I didn't wanna lose it. Um, but looking back, it really was [laughs] kind of an eye-opening thing.
7:49
So we laugh at it still because it's one of those things where I think I actually kind of made a bit of an enemy with that leader, so, uh, through that because they still s- saw me as the one who
7:59
proved them wrong, and they, they weren't the type that liked to be proven wrong. Yeah. Um, but I still laugh about it
8:07
regularly whenever I think about it because it just made me feel so good to know that I had the research ability to look into that stuff and learn and understand it, and then email the Department of Labor and get confirmation that I was right the whole time.
8:21
Like, you just get that- Yeah... sense of pride, and you're just like, you, you, you walk a little taller through the hallways- [laughs] I know what I'm doing... for a little while.
8:27
Um, but yeah, you, you cringe a little bit too though, 'cause you're like, "Oh, man, I really could have, like, hosed my career," um- Yes... with, with that move.
8:35
But I, I just had this sense of, like, justice that I was like, "I have to prove it," because I was genuinely concerned that if we didn't do it that way, because it was a, a federal regulation, we could be on the hook for a lot of penalties and fines.
8:50
Um- Yeah... and so yeah, it was- It, it-... it was fun It's quite an interesting thing, isn't it, that in HR we're often seen as providing a service.
9:00
You know, we talk a little bit about a servant-master relationship with the managers,
9:07
and yet one of the things we're doing is making sure they stay on the right side of the law and that, that they're not on the hook for a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, yeah.
9:20
That's the, the thing that always strikes me as funny, and I, I'm preaching to the choir here with e- even the people who are gonna be watching this, I'm sure. But when they...
9:29
We always get the, "HR is just there to protect the company," line. You know, that's all. They don't care about the employees. They're just there to protect the company.
9:35
And you know, we keep saying, "We're the employees, too." Um, and protecting the employee and protecting the company aren't mutually exclusive things. If- Yeah...
9:46
if the company is secure and safe and not getting hit with fines and, and, you know, all these penalties
9:54
and re- and, you know, violations of regulations, then the employees, they get to keep their jobs and stay [laughs] in. So I mean... And the, the ones who think that we're not,
10:06
that we're, you know, against them are the ones that are probably the ones who are actually endangering the company in the first place. Um- Yeah...
10:11
and so it's, it is, it's always an interesting, uh, uh, dichotomy when you think about it that way. Yeah, exactly. So let's talk a little bit about what you've learned, um, through your long, long career.
10:27
I, in 10- you're saying 10 years. I'm, I'm saying 30 years. [laughs] I feel very old today, Eric. Um, but what do you wish now that you'd understood earlier in your career?
10:44
I think the, some of the, one of the biggest things I think I wish I knew earlier on that I know now is that nobody really knows what they're doing.
10:56
And, and it, that sounds horrible to say it that way, but everyone's learning every day, and you don't go into any job, any situation with all the answers right there. And so you know that you have to
11:13
ask the right questions, and you have to be inquisitive and be willing to go and just be able to say, like, "I don't know the answer, but I will find out for you."
11:24
That was one of the hardest things because you walk in there and you think you are HR. You're supposed to be the expert on all things employee when you walk into a room, and, and you can't be. Mm.
11:37
I wish I'd had known that earlier on because I wanted so much...
11:40
And I would early on have made the mistakes of kind of winging it and making things up on the fly and hoping that I got it right when really I coulda just said, "Let me get back to you on that.
11:51
I wanna make sure I'm giving you the right answer." I wish I'd have known that earlier on. It would've saved me a lot of headache as I had to backtrack a lot of things as I learned my way through it.
12:02
And, uh, w- what would be then, like, a mistake you made or a, or a, a mistake that taught you something really useful? Um, we've talked about walking in and not winging it, but- Yeah...
12:15
what else would there be on that path? So, uh, something I learned, and, and obviously this wasn't even in compensation, this was back in t- when I was doing talent acquisition. Uh, I learned quickly there was...
12:29
I don't remember the exact position that I was, I was doing the recruiting for at the time, but I had completely misread what one of the qualifications was, and I assumed that I knew what it was, and I was eliminating people left and right from this thing.
12:46
Only to come back later on, my, my manager's like, "Why am I getting all these phone calls from people asking why they're being eliminated?" Because they're getting all these rejection letters.
12:55
And I was like, "Well, here's the thing." And he, and they're like, "That's not, that's not how that... No, no."
13:01
And so I had to call all these people back and say, "On second thought, tell you what, we've reviewed your, your application and turns out that you..."
13:08
Like, you know, you find out some clever way of saying it that doesn't say, "Hey, I screwed up. You're actually in."
13:14
But it's like, "We took a second look at your application and realized that actually you do meet the qualifications and we'd like to call you in for an interview."
13:21
Um, that was one of those things where, you know, you learn. Don't make it up. If you don't know, ask. Um, and that would've, I mean, would've saved me a lot of headache and a lot of, you know- It is...
13:31
follow-up emails and phone calls and, you know. 'Cause working for the City of St. Louis, the, uh, the application volume is immense. Um, and it's- I could imagine. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um,
13:47
it's one of the, the funniest things I think I learned as a, a young HR person, is that if you don't know something, ask.
13:56
You come out of university, college, and you think, "Hey, I know everything," or, "I should know everything." Um, HR is a, is a people function where you're making mistakes with people's lives and, uh- Uh-huh...
14:12
and I think that's one of the things. If you don't know, ask, because there's always someone in HR that knows a little bit more than you. Yeah.
14:21
There, there's al- you know, there's gonna be that one person who has been there, like they helped...
14:26
You know, there, there was, there, there's one lady at the city that I always joked around, like she helped build City Hall, you know? And City Hall was built in the early 1900s. So, you know- Yeah...
14:35
we, that's our running joke. It's like, "And she knows everything. If you don't know where something is, ask her." Yeah. Um, and yeah, there's always somebody.
14:46
There's always someone who knows a little bit more than you about something. Yeah. Exactly. And you have to know who those people are. So, so let's talk about what we're seeing.
14:55
As, as I said in the intro, you know, we're going through so much change at the moment. Um, you know, let's, we could s- use the AI example,
15:05
but there's a lot changing in the world and society and how people perceive work. We've had lots of fun stuff. I've had lots of fun watching on Instagram the, the Gen Z movement and how they're approaching work.
15:19
But, but what do you think is changing in work that you think us, as HR professionals, need to understand better? It, I mean, y- you mentioned AI. I think that's a big part of it. But I think the...
15:37
And this has been going on for a while now, I think, but just the attitude towards work in general h- is really shifting, that people don't necessarily want... Uh, there's, there's...
15:56
M- money is the, is the driving force behind it and, you know, there, there's the, you know, the, the, like the tech bro founder mentality that, that they're trying to...
16:05
That is, that's not really a thing anymore outside of like the founder space, I feel. But you know, there's not, you're not gonna
16:12
find people who are just so invested in your mission that they're gonna willing to take less pay and less benefits because they believe so much in your random startup company. And
16:26
that's where, you know, you have to pay your people appropriately. And, and, I think the, the, the, uh, the younger employees that are coming out now, they're, they're just wanting their, their paycheck.
16:38
They wa- they want, they realize that [laughs] they need to, to be able to pay their bills and, and you know, the, the pride of ownership is not paying their mortgage payment or their rent payment.
16:53
Um, and so I think that's where I, I'm seeing a lot of, a lot of change there is, you know, it used to be like, "I, as long as I'm working somewhere that I'm happy, I'll take less pay."
17:01
And I, I, more and more I'm seeing people say, "No, I wanna work somewhere where I'm happy and I get paid enough." Yeah. And I think that's, that's starting to shift, I think, in that, in that regard. Yeah. And, um,
17:15
a- a- a- and but it's not just about being happy and pay. Don't you think it's also about, you know, does this add to my quality of life?
17:24
Uh, s- you know, certainly the younger generation are not necessarily prepared to work the 60-hour week to get ahead. Mm-hmm. They're looking at their life more holistically. Yeah.
17:35
I, I feel like I'm in that younger generation. I'm 46 years old, but I feel like I'm in that younger generation where I, I, I don't wanna work a 60-hour week necessarily.
17:43
I rec- I recognize that it has to happen occasionally, but I don't want that to be the norm for me. Yeah. I wanna, I wanna, you know, clock out at the end of the day and,
17:52
and you know, just spend time with my family or, or you know, read a book or go to bed early or something. You know, I, I don't, I don't want to necessarily be working all those hours. Yeah.
18:03
Um, but yeah, I think you're right though. I mean, quality of life is, is a big part of it and, and
18:09
you know, the, people torturing themselves even for a 40-hour work week are not going to put up with that anymore, you know, just because the money is good. Yes.
18:18
Yeah, no, it's a real, there's a real sh- fundamental shift in society. So let's, uh, let's give someone some practical advice then.
18:26
And if someone is listening and they're dealing with something that you've already been through, what would you tell them? How, how do you mean? I don't know if I follow you on that one, I'm sorry.
18:38
So, so, you know, you've talked a bit about, you know, making mistakes and, you know, finding your way in the world. Someone will be dealing with something you've already been through, a particularly hard problem.
18:53
And rather than the practical bit of how to solve the problem, what would be something you'd, advice you'd give them about how they can manage it personally? Ask for help.
19:07
I think that is the, the biggest thing that I have had to learn, and I'm still learning it, to be honest with you, is ask for help. You,
19:18
you may not have a big team of, like, people doing your same work with you, but you have some sort of team. You have some sort of support network, hopefully, s- in your, in your organization.
19:29
And if you're, if you're up against it and you're being, feeling overwhelmed, and you're feeling, uh, you, you just don't know where to start or, you know, y- you just, you don't know the direction, you're like, you're listless- [laughs]
19:41
Yeah... ask for help. No one is gonna fault you f- for saying, "I don't understand what you want from me," or, "I don't understand this problem completely." Um, I have a hard time with that myself.
19:54
I tend to say, "No, I will figure this out," and I will work into the evening trying to solve a problem, and try to figure out an answer or a solution somehow. Yeah.
20:05
When all I really needed to do was send my manager a Teams message and say, "What are you looking for here?" And she could have told me in five seconds and saved me three hours of work. Yeah.
20:17
And she has gotten onto me several times saying, "Eric, you have to ask for help. We're... I will help you." Yeah. "Don't torture yourself with this. Ask for help."
20:25
So long story short, three, three little, tiny words I think is the biggest advice that anyone has ever given me, is ask for help. I absolutely love it, and I agree completely.
20:36
So the, the final question to ask you, and it's a bit of a work in progress question, and it's, you know, a little bit, um,
20:47
a- about what Humanyre is about, um, where we're trying to make HR easier for people and help them to figure out things. But i- it- it's a, it's a funny old profession. I think there is still a lot that HR needs to,
21:05
to figure out themselves, um, or, or start to think about, what does this profession mean to us? So what's one thing about HR or work that you think we should still need to figure out?
21:25
I think HR in general still has a, an image problem. I think that's the, the biggest thing we need to, to figure out, is we need some PR- [laughs]... when it comes right down to it. You know, we, we have- Yeah...
21:42
w- we offer so many good things. You know, you have compensation and benefits. You have the business partners who are genuinely there to try to help employees and the business navigate through everything.
21:52
You have, you know, your wellness plans that people horribly underutilize, I feel. Um, and we just need better PR.
22:02
Like, we, we, we talk, and we send out the company-wide email saying, "Don't forget to do this and that," but it, it just doesn't come across the same because people just see it as coming from HR, and it's, it's...
22:12
They're gonna blow it off. And so I think that's... If we can somehow... And, and it, it's gonna take, it's gonna take a work. It's gonna take some sea change of, of activity to make it happen.
22:23
But if we can just make people realize that we are genuinely there [laughs] for their best interest- Yes... and that we are truly trying our best to make, like, the work environment good for them- Mm...
22:40
I, I think that would help out. But it's hard. It's really hard. It's, it, it, it... I could go down so many rabbit holes with you on this because, uh, you know, I th- I think it is your... I think you're right.
22:53
I think HR has a PR problem. And, uh, a- and, you know, I, every day I think, "How can we change this?" Because y- I have always worked for both the individual and the company, and have often held the company to account.
23:10
You'll never see it, because everything you do is confidential- Right... in so many ways.
23:15
And, and that's almost, like, what part of the problem is, that we can't talk publicly or do [laughs] our own PR 'cause we're often dealing with private matters with people. Right. Yeah.
23:27
The, the big win you have is the win you can't talk about. Yeah. Exactly. Uh,
23:33
and then the, the, the ones, the things that give us the bad PR are the things that, um, usually impact an employee negatively, and so they're not bound by that same confidentiality, and so they are shouting to the rooftops about how horrible things are.
23:47
And yeah, it's, it's, it's rough. It's rough. Yeah. And yet we keep going. You've been doing it- No... for 10 years. I've been doing it for 30. So there must be something about this job that we absolutely love.
24:02
It's worth it. In the end of the day, it's worth it. Whenever you realize and you can have something turn out for the best, even if you can't talk about it, but you know that it's done right,
24:12
it, it, it, it, it feels good. It feels good. Yeah. Exactly. And that's such a beautiful note to end on. So Eric, thank you so much for joining me on Work In Progress, and for sharing your wonderful insights.
24:27
And, uh, have fun in St. Louis. [laughs] Yeah. Thanks. [laughs] So good to have an American on our call. Anyway. [laughs] Thank you, and bye for now. Thanks for having me. Thank you.
24:46
Hang on. Have I stopped recording? No, I think I've- I don't know... oh, I haven't stopped recording. There we go. Leave that in.
WORK IN PROGRESS
Recent episodes
No results found
